A Reminder: Don’t Forget What It is Like To Have A Small Child On An Airplane

My son staring out the plane window

He started to scream before the flight even took off.  We were in the same row, but on opposite sides of the aisle.  I figure he was about 2 and a half.  He was sandwiched in between his parents… two people who desperately wished the three of them could somehow disappear.

You know why?

Because their baby was HURTING.  On an airplane.

Also?

Because it took absolutely NO TIME for the stares, the deep sighs and the eye rolling to start.

The LOOKS.  I’m stuck sitting near the screaming baby.

The woman in front of me actually asked to have her seat moved because, LOUD VOICE , “of the screaming baby”.  She turned to the people next to her and said, “and they aren’t doing ANYTHING to stop it”.

Seriously?

As if the parents were doing shots instead of rocking him, trying to play with him, offering him milk and snacks and doing everything they could to alleviate potential pressure in his ears.

Not one to keep quiet in a situation like that, I used an equally loud conversation with my daughter as a teaching moment, “That family is doing everything they can to help that little guy.  We don’t know why he is crying.  Clearly he is unhappy.  His ears might be hurting him very badly.  Yes, he is loud…. But know that no one wants him to be ok more than his mom and dad”.

Hey, Lady in front of me… I’m talking to YOU.

That little boy – I believe she said his name was Christopher, screamed for the better part of a two-plus hour flight….  And I have a little newsflash for the ridiculously behaved people sitting around me:

THERE IS NO ONE ON THAT FLIGHT WHO WANTED THAT LITTLE GUY TO STOP CRYING MORE THAN HIS PARENTS.  NO ONE.

Look… I get it.  Listening to a screaming child or baby for any length of time isn’t a picnic…. In fact, I had a headache just like everyone else….But to turn around and shoot daggers at the family every minute…. How does that help?  You are only succeeding in making a very difficult situation virtually unbearable for that family.

I have a few suspicions…. The adults who were acting out are

  • a)    not parents
  • b)   have forgotten what it was like to be a parent or are disillusiioned enough to believe that their children were perfect (I suspect otherwise having seen the uncharitable behavior of some of their offspring)
  • c)    they have no souls

That little guy cried himself out and feel asleep about 10 minutes before we landed.  That’s when his mom’s tears started.  She simply broke down…. sitting in her seat, red-eyed, softly rubbing the face of that tuckered-out boy.  Even as passengers exited the plane, she stayed in her seat, hand on his back and cried.

At one point she looked at me and mouthed, ‘I’m sorry”.

Not to worry, my friend.  Not to worry.

I patted her arm as I left and told her I’ve been there.

And I mean it.

You snuggle that little guy when you get home and just make sure you make another mom, on another flight feel less alone.

  • amaryllis

    You shouldn’t. But the flight attendant can tell adults to put their shoes back on, or tone it down and most of the time they will comply. Try that with a toddler or baby.

  • amaryllis

    Try first class. It’s what I do and I’ve almost never run into a kid, much less a screaming baby.

  • amaryllis

    Yup.

  • Danielle Smith

    And to this I would add no one should have to fly with anyone who coughs/has a cold, who has had too much to drink, is too loud, has children over the age of 7 who haven’t passed an obedience test, or is rude to a flight attendant, (should I continue with the myriad ways PEOPLE have to be grown-ups and deal with ‘annoyances’ in life and specifically while we fly – or is my sarcasm clear?)

  • amaryllis

    Actually airlines can and have prevented sick people and drunk passengers from flying. They don’t always catch it, but it is a reason for getting tossed off. And just try being rude to a flight attendant these days. You’ll not only get tossed off, but the police will be called and they will help escort you off the plane when you exit. Try it some time!

  • Danielle Smith

    Every single day, the rude, sick and drunk fly. I’m not quite sure how often you fly, but EVERY time I do (which is often) I encounter at least two of the three on my flights. Airlines do not stop passengers with persistent coughs and have no way of knowing if someone has spent the last 48 hours with the stomach flu (or worse), so no…there isn’t a ‘check’ of any kind to PREVENT the sick from flying. And the drunk? You’d have to be excruciatingly belligerent and unruly before being denied your flight – which is why so many flight have people who have been (and continue to be in-flight) over-served. As for the rude? Again, I’m not talking about (As you well know) the threatening or dangerous – I’m talking run-of-the-mill inconsiderate human beings – the type you seem to be equating with people who fly with children. Yes, those people fly every single day.

  • amaryllis

    Yeah, and every day really obnoxious kids fly too. They don’t catch it all at the gate, but the most egregious cases are chucked off the plane. I don’t fly as much as I used to, but I fly first class unless I have an emergency and I can’t get a seat (or the plane doesn’t have first class). Other than those rare occasions, I haven’t flown coach since 1987 when I spent 8 hours from DC to London having some brat kick the back of my seat.

  • Danielle Smith

    You see? Now I’m laughing. You haven’t flown as much since some ‘brat kid kicked the back of your coach seat’….? I’d say those of us who fly regularly with and without children are MUCH better off without the likes of you on our flights as that is arguably one of the most entitled things I’ve heard someone say. I’m going to smile the rest of the night at the very notion that some now 30-something ‘brat kid’ has been saving the rest of us for more than 20 years. (also? your knowledge of who is kept from flying is STELLAR for someone with so little recent – as in 20+years – experience)

  • amaryllis

    I don’t fly as much because of a change in career, not because a kid kicked my seat (which happened on a vacation, not business). I fly first class now because of that, and because coach is just dreadful. BTW, “less” is an average of twice a month, but mostly domestic these days. Good thing about first class is you hardly ever see a kid, much less a toddler or baby.

  • Danielle Smith

    Interesting…when I travel First Class, I’ve seen children, quite often actually – both toddlers and babies…but then again, I don’t panic when I see them…and don’t treat their parents as though they don’t deserve to fly, much less be sharing First Class with me. The very idea that new parents should rob an 80-something year old grandmother of seeing her brand new grandchildren because some people can’t handle that babies occasionally cry – and again – no one wants the crying to stop more than the parents – it is beyond my comprehension. People travel for vacation, to visit far away family and for emergencies – all of which require children to fly. And deservedly so. The good news for those of us with patience and understanding? They can continue to do so. Anyone who doesn’t like it? Can stop flying.

  • amaryllis

    I have no intention of stopping flying, and entitled mommies like you are the reason that airlines are starting to ban kids from certain flights and first class. Granny needs to get on a plane. 80 is the new 60, and she should still be doing half marathons. Baby boomers are a pretty significant customer base who have already done their time in hell (or skipped the whole thing) and don’t want another dose. In case you are wondering there were 76 million baby boomers and 65 million of us are still alive. We don’t want to listen to screaming babies and we have money and market clout. By the time we’re all dead you children will be adults. Surveys show that 70 percent of airline passengers baby boomer or not, would pay extra just to avoid being anywhere near your kids. That’s a pretty big market. Since parents are no longer reasonable we just want you and your kids gone. It’s coming. Baby steps (pun intended).

  • Danielle Smith

    Your comments are increasingly laughable AND entitled, which is both rich and ignorant considering you are the one demanding special treatment. The fact that you refer to parenting a child as ‘time in hell’ says so very much about your character.

    Let’s get a few things straight since you are a) making assumptions about me and b) quoting unnamed surveys. First of all, it has been years since my children were at an age that they would even be considered disruptive – and while they have been flying since they were six weeks old and I never had an experience anywhere near what I described in this post, I encountered MANY people who ASSUMED my children might be difficult on the flight and treated us as such initially – only to comment kindly at the end of the flight. I suspect you are one such type of person – the side eye, the eye-roll, the ever-entitled sigh of a person believing I shouldn’t be allowed to fly with my children in case we disturb the peace.

    Next – to your contentions that (we) parents are no longer reasonable (because we fly with our children?) And this ‘pretty big market’ is taking baby steps towards what? Banning kids? Preventing families from flying? Or just keeping them from the high and mighty like you in First Class? Silly. As of this writing, AirAsia has a ‘no kids’ section and Malaysia airlines does as well – mainly from the top deck of their flights and in First Class. Both of those ‘announcements’ were made in 2012. Two years ago. Additionally, the surveys I see say between 20-33% might be willing to pay more (up to $25) for a ‘quiet section’. Can you point me to the 70%?

    Finally, you make an EXTREMELY large assumption by referring to me as a child (By the time we’re all dead you children will be adults.) which I’m clearly not – nor have I been for quite some time….and your statement follows a series of comments about how much money and market clout baby boomers have, and yet – the news is filled with stories about how reluctant Baby Boomers are to retire, how they are struggling financially and will be working longer than the generations before them.

    Unlike you, I won’t pretend to know anything about your current situation beyond what you have put in your comments. From those you strike me as unkind, impatient and intolerant.

    I wrote this post not for me (yet you accuse me of being entitled) but because I AM KIND, because I find it unacceptable to be rude to someone who is hurting or struggling. And unlike you, I don’t think the answer is to tell them to ‘stay home’. I DO think families should be allowed to travel, to go to restaurants, to leave their homes. Sometimes there are alternatives (for a fancy dinner – I hope they can hire a babysitter) but for flying to see family, for taking a family vacation – air travel is the main option.

    But back to one of my initial statements – you referred to raising children as ‘done their time in hell’. Every day I’m surprised by people. Usually that is a good thing. Not this time.

    Baby steps.

  • amaryllis

    Your children, not you. Anyone who’s disruptive should not be allowed to fly, be in a restaurant, or even in a Target. Bratty children shouldn’t be anywhere that doesn’t have a playground attached. If you hang out in Chuck E Cheese, I don’t care how your kids behave. I’m not going there.

    Look the surveys up yourself. There are many. When passengers are asked about quiet sections of any variety the majority say they’d pay more to be in them. HOWEVER, when families are asked if they would like to have “family sections” even if there is no extra fee, very few want one because they don’t want to sit to someone else’s brat. That’s just too funny. They want to pollute the world with their brats, but they don’t want to have to deal with others.

    When I was a kid there was no such thing as a childfree restaurant because parents knew better than to bring their children to fancy places. I got on a plane for the first time at 7, and there were many lessons before that time. If I couldn’t be relied on to behave my parents would have waited until I was 12 or 15 or 20, but they would never have allowed me to act up in a public place. And that’s pretty much how it was for all children because the public wouldn’t stand for it and business owners would kick you out. Now the only clout business owners have is to keep you out to start with. Civilization is going down the rabbit hole and you’re one of the leaders.

  • Danielle Smith

    Good heavens, you are a sad, bitter soul, now aren’t you? The world is just full of these wretched, awful, bratty children and their horrible parents just DYING to pollute your world.

    I wonder what has made you so ill-tempered and vitriolic.

    You actually just pulled the, ‘when I was a kid’ card. Just for fun, I’ll play along: I flew for the first time before I was a year old….to the Philippines. And that was far more than 40 years ago…. long before any of this was a debate. And for the record? It was in first-class. No complaints. Why do I know this? It’s a story my parents have always loved to tell. So the ‘back-in-the-day’ business is empty to me. Maybe my parents had more faith in me?

    As for telling me to look up the surveys? This is the best part. I DID. I think it is important to have all the information. And your stats? Couldn’t find them anywhere. Which is why I ASKED, rather than simply saying it sounded ridiculous. However…now that you are aimlessly quoting more baseless stats, I DID find information that said EVEN some families DID support the notion of family sections. Again? Your argument makes no sense to me.

    There will ALWAYS be (and always have been) more and less diligent parents and better and worse behaved children. It’s cyclical.

    Either way, your attitude is both extreme and quite sad. I hope you don’t go out very often

  • amaryllis

    Sorry to tell you I go out every day. And because I just bought a new property I’ve been flying once a week this summer while I get it renovated. I eat out every meal except for breakfast during the week. Pricing yourself out of children works for the most part.

    I generally fly in the mornings so I can get a full day at my destination. I don’t see children in the first class lounge, much less on my particular flight. For the most part I don’t have to deal with children, they are rarely on my plane, my hotel room corridor, my restaurant, and never in earshot of my condo, coop, or house. But I do feel sorry for people who can’t afford to price themselves out. ALL people should be able to have piece and quiet.

    You are right about one thing though. SOME families do want family sections on flights so that they don’t have to deal with the stares and complaints when little Johnny runs up and down the plane throwing toys and screaming, or dropping cookie crumbs on the poor passenger in the seat in front of his. The only thing I wonder is why children don’t get thrown off planes more often than they do now.

    And I don’t know why you can’t find this. It’s the number one return on a Google search on the subject.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2621402/Babies-planes-70-cent-Britons-want-child-free-zones-aircraft.html

  • Danielle Smith

    Your hatred certainly runs deep, now doesn’t it?

    Not only does your link not show up with in my first 5 hits on google (I attached a screenshot just for you), but it doesn’t even show up on my first page. This means a) you visit the Daily Mail frequently (yikes!) b) you live in England? c) you search for this topic A LOT.

    I’m curious. Your original claim was that 70% of BABY BOOMERS want family sections on flights and yet this survey is 70% of Britons. Quite different, don’t you think? Especially considering you’re commenting on a U.S based website? I don’t know if you live in the U.K (and quite honestly I don’t care as my traffic is worldwide) but to lay claim to ’70% of baby boomers’ when you’re actually talking about a survey directed at a specific country seems like a stretch.

    Additionally, based on that specific article, children are actually FOURTH on the list of most annoying passengers – behind the drunk and rowdy, those with poor hygiene, and seat kickers. So, again, EVERYONE has something to complain about.

    Granted, YOU have a long and intense list. Maybe you want to talk to someone about that?

    While you feel sorry for people who can’t afford ‘to price themselves out’ earning their distance from families, I feel sorry for people who live in such a state of bitterness.

  • amaryllis

    Reading is fundamental, but apparently it isn’t for you. So you won’t have to break a nail scrolling up, what I said is, “Surveys show that 70 percent of airline passengers baby boomer or not,
    would pay extra just to avoid being anywhere near your kids.”

    What that means is they would pay extra to be seated in a quiet zone away from children. On the other hand, most families don’t want family sections because they don’t want to listen to other people’s brats. I only linked one survey, but there are many like it, done in many different countries. The results are always the same. Most passengers would pay extra to have peace and quiet on their flight and either have no children in their section or on their plane.

    Actually, I don’t have a “a long and intense list”. There is only one thing on my list, and that is keep bratty kids away from me. I’m rarely near children, but would you like to know what happened the last time I saw one? I was in an elegant restaurant eating in the bar section and some low life parents came in with a ton of baby gear, put the baby on the bar and started taking videos of it. I was so appalled I took a picture. The baby by this point was done crawling and is sitting in front of his mother, middle seat. THIS is what parents are like today and I don’t want to be anywhere near them or their children.

    FWIW, I’m living a near perfect life. I rarely see children, have lots of friends and family, beautiful homes, an exciting and interesting life. There should be more restrictions on where you can bring children, but that rarely interferes with my life. The times that it does, well you can see the results in the picture below. And you wonder why I don’t like being around kids?

  • amaryllis

    Hmm, even though there is a place to upload a picture, it isn’t loading. If you change permissions I’ll upload it for you. It’s quite a sight to see!

  • amaryllis

    Well, I guess it finally did upload. Sorry for the three parter.

  • Danielle Smith

    I can take the correction. But you ignored the rest of it: the UK? Because the survey doesn’t reference the US (where I live and do 75% of my flying with/without children). And NONE of the first page google results I received supported your 70% claim. Which was why I questioned it.

    Quite honestly, I’m not even vaguely concerned with your ‘near perfect life’ – if that is, in fact the case (you’ve certainly spent a lot of time yapping about it and trying to make sure I know you are GOOD AND WEALTHY (protest too much?)), I question the amount of energy and vitriol you have directed to coming to my site and defending your stance about TODAY’S BRATTY KIDS, LITTLE JOHNNY, and TODAY’S IRRESPONSIBLE PARENTS…

    While I would agree with you that a bar is no place for a child – and I would personally never sit a child on a bar, let alone for picture-taking purposes, I don’t have the time or energy to be judging other people for every decision they make…additionally, I can’t vouch for the elegance of that establishment based on that picture.

    Also: if you’d like to make ‘reading is fundamental’ cracks…does that apply to spelling too? “ALL people should be able to have piece and quiet.’ Did you mean PEACE and quiet?

  • amaryllis

    I read a story on Huffington Post about the same subject and while looking around the net for something I wanted to link I just happened upon your blog and dropped a comment. That would have been it except that you answered, and kept answering. I wouldn’t have even remembered that I had been here if I wasn’t getting e-mails telling me that you replied.

    I don’t give a rats ass if you think I’m good, wealthy, or a fairy princess. My point is you shouldn’t have to be any of those things to enjoy a pleasant airplane ride without brats running up and down the airplane aisle, grabbing you, dumping crumbs on you, kicking your seat, or worse your knee, because you’re too big to be a lap baby. There are just so many things wrong about flying with children, and I don’t really care about it as long as I’m not the one on the receiving end of it. BTW, lap babies are the first to get injured and die in airplane accidents, but it’s their baby, and if they want it to be a projectile on a “family only flight”, I don’t care about that either.

    As far as the survey goes, there are plenty of others. This one happens to be from the UK. You aren’t looking very hard if you can’t find them. Bratty kids on planes is pretty high on every one’s list of things to avoid. Plenty of parents have noted the terror in other passengers eyes as their kids go down the aisle in the plane. The potential victims are silently praying, “please don’t sit next to me, please, God, please.”

    FWIW, the bill at the restaurant in question was just under $200 for
    lunch for two without tip. And it wouldn’t matter if it was a Mexican restaurant for $40, a baby does not belong ON TOP of a bar. In fact it shouldn’t be at a bar at all. The health inspector and ABC inspector seemed to agree with me and went to speak with the owner after the incident.

    Finally “reading is fundamental” means you should be able to get the meaning of what people write. You completely misunderstood it. And there were no grammatical errors no spelling errors in that particular statement. Yeah, I made a typo later on. My bad, but you still understood what I was saying.

  • Danielle Smith

    So now you are an expert on what is high on the list of ‘every one’s things to avoid’? And THAT’S why you’ve continued to return to my site with a litany of reasons not only that children shouldn’t be allowed on planes (your original complaint), but not in restaurants or any where around you? Additionally, you’ve waxed on and on about ‘back in your day’, entitled parents, surveys that purport to support a need to transform the entire airline industry based on what EVERYONE wants (children shouldn’t be allowed to fly)?

    You’ve morphed from silly to simply ignorant. You say you don’t care what I think about you, yet you continue to return to defend your positions (even when I agree with them – note I said I don’t think a bar is any place for a baby and that I wouldn’t put a baby on a bar and definitely not for pictures and yet you STILL dedicated an entire paragraph to a baby not belonging ON TOP of a bar – including reinforcement from the health inspector?)

    As for the reading dig – the best part is you have yet to address the 2nd half of my comment – which is still valid – a survey that is dedicated to ONE COUNTRY (which you omitted). Again, because you have yet to acknowledge it, I did focus on the baby boomer portion of what you said, and it was in error, but based on your comment, your survey is STILL invalid.

    You said: “70 percent of airline passengers baby boomer or not,” and that is NOT the survey you quoted. The survey is 70% of BRITONS. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. 70% of passengers SURVEYED IN ONE COUNTRY feel that way, yes. And your response to that is that I’m not looking very hard? Please. It isn’t my job to spend my days researching for surveys to support your arguments. Especially when I did look. More than once. Before I ever responded to you initially – I looked.

    I’d like to think you are smart enough to know there are articles online that support every which way of thinking – left, right, middle. But basic research hasn’t taken me to anything that supports your claims. Yet, for some reason, it is imperative to you that you be RIGHT on this.

    The funny thing is – you do realize that you left more than one comment in this stream before I responded, right? And you were so rude – on my site – about something that I DO feel strongly about (being kind to people)- that I decided to respond. And you’ve continued to come back. It is THAT important to you. So important that this thread has morphed from hating kids on airplanes to hating kids in restaurants to hating kids in public to parents inability to control their children. This has become your own personal space to vent about everything you detest about families and kids – while throwing in snippets about your perfect, fulfilled life, your frequent travel, your multiple homes.

    Just what is it you are trying to prove? And to whom?

    Also….. I noted that from your Disqus profile that you comment quite a bit, but keep yourself anonymous. Interesting.

  • amaryllis

    The survey isn’t invalid and there are many other surveys in other countries with similar results. In fact, most of them are US surveys. You can’t possibly care about this topic and not know about the many polls out there. I don’t agree with your positions, but you don’t appear to be stupid. I answer because you keep on writing. It’s pretty obvious that the major complaint of airline passengers is screaming babies and unruly toddlers. The fact that you keep defending your position shows how out of touch you are. The only people who defend it are parents who think that nothing should change after they decide to breed.

    I don’t care what you think of me, I do care about my position. I think it should be more pleasant out there for the general public to travel. The world has become an uncivilized place due to parents who think they need to take their kids everywhere. This is the reason that businesses of various types are starting to ban them. You never even HEARD about banning kids in restaurants, on airplanes, in stores when I was a kid because parents knew better. They no longer do.

    I don’t really have a dog in this race, but I do care about my friends and family. I cannot tell you how many of their vacations, anniversary dinners, birthday celebrations have been ruined because someone else thought it was appropriate to bring their uncontrolled screaming brat to the same venue.

    My comments about my life were in response to your assertion that I must be miserable, lonely, angry, I think you used the word vitriolic somewhere in there because I don’t think babies and toddlers should be on planes. I’m none of those things.

    And my Disqus profile is private because I’m not a fan of stalkers. Apparently you’re one of them as you seem to be searching for information on me. On the other hand, I have no curiosity as to who you are. What you tell me here is more than enough.

  • Danielle Smith

    It seem that you are now the one who is challenged with a serious misunderstanding. Your use of that survey for your argument is, in fact, invalid. Your words, “70 percent of airline passengers baby boomer or not, would pay extra just to avoid being anywhere near your kids.” And yet you are using a survey that states 70% of BRITONS feel that way. Britons, not everyone, Britons. Surely you can see the very simple flaws in your argument as one survey taken in one country does not apply to EVERYONE.

    And while you claim to not have a ‘dog in this race’, you keep coming back to defend your stance. And yes, I did assert that you bitter and unhappy and absolutely used vitriolic.

    Because you clearly are those very things. Anyone who dedicates as much time and energy to worrying about children in public as you do – and the pure hatred of them – clearly has some deep-set issues.

    Also – calling me a stalker for clicking on your Disqus profile is laughable. Do keep in mind you commented on this thread FOUR TIMES before I ever replied. So, yes, you bet, I clicked on your profile before I ever responded….just to see what kind of person could POSSIBLY be so riled up about this topic, so invested that they were working their way down the comment thread, commenting not once, not twice, but four times?

    That makes me wise, not a stalker. And it prepares me for what will happen (what HAS happened) when I engage.

    Having worked in this space for as long as I have, I’m familiar with people just like you… people who sit online and spread nastiness, who fight anonymously, who love to throw negativity out in to the space and see what happens.

    Not all children are bratty and unruly. Not all parents are irresponsible. The fact that you continue to make generalized statements as though you can speak for all people with or without children shows you are markedly out of touch.

    Picture me smiling right now as I tell you, I will continue to defend this community – defend the rights of parents to travel and eat in restaurants and you can continue to return to my site and spew your self-proclaimed wealth and happiness, masked in misery and I will continue to see you as the unhappy human being you are. Anyone who spends as much time as you clearly do being mean and nasty simply isn’t kind, pleasant or happy.

  • amaryllis

    You really don’t know how to keep your emotions under control. It’s half the reason I come back here. It’s kind of fun to watch you get all unhinged, while on the other hand, I’m pretty analytical. The first rule of debate is that once you have to call the other person names to make your point you’ve lost the debate. Answers in order of paragraph:

    1) As I’ve said multiple times, the British survey is hardly the only one and bratty kids on airplanes is a top complaint. I don’t have time to do a huge Google search right now because I’m picking furnishings and appliances for said new property. I should have time over the weekend. I’d like to say that will shut you up, but I have the feeling that it won’t.

    2) You don’t know me, and I don’t care if you think I’m unhappy and vitriolic, but it’s kind of funny that you assert characteristics to someone you don’t know. Must be some kind of feeler trait.

    3) I don’t spend a lot of time thinking about children in public. I don’t patronize child-friendly places and prefer venues that don’t allow children at all when available. The majority of my discussions on-line have nothing to do with children. I participate in discussions when I’m flying, in between meetings, while waiting for contractors, etc. Kind of helps pass the time. Most of my posts on-line are about healthcare and healthcare policy, however.

    4) I find it weird when people try to find out information about the people they have discussions with on-line. On occasion I’ve dropped my veil when I’ve found a person interesting, or when I found that we actually knew each other. However, that’s not the case here. I find people the most interesting when they engage in analytical debates, and don’t get all feeler on me. Feelings while important in personal relationships are not good in a debate.

    5) Oh dear, you are anything but wise. You are overemotional and have no ability to see the big picture. If you used your brain more this might actually be fun.

    6) LOL. Looking at the comments to this post, at least half seem to agree with me. Given that this is a mommy blog, that’s a pretty high percentage. Parents work with blinders on. I think you probably have to do that in order to have kids in the first place and destroy the fun life you used to have. Your choice is your choice, but parents who tell me to just “deal with it” have lost my respect. The parents who tell me, “I won’t bring my child to an upscale restaurant until trained”, “If my child acts up in the grocery store, the department store, the beauty parlor, etc. I will leave IMMEDIATELY and won’t subject other people to their melt down”, “I won’t infect first class and business with my children ever”, “I will drive to my destinations and not fly at all”, “I will only fly with my children as a last resort” — have my respect.

    7) I actually agree with you on this one. Unfortunately about 90 percent of children are bratty and unruly and I blame their pond scum parents. I actually do know children, and when I’ve gone places with them I have a zero tolerance policy for bad behavior. A few years ago a girlfriend and I went to a shopping mall to pick up a few things and wanted to get a drink in a nice hotel. Only problem is that her 2 year old was with us and he was acting bratty. So she had her drink while I walked him and I had my drink while she did the same. Regardless of which foot the shoe is on, the patrons at a restaurant, a grocery store, a department store, or anywhere else deserve a melt down free experience. And unless you are a total idiot you know when your child is about to pitch a fit. I don’t have a lot of interaction with children, but when I do they are not allowed to misbehave and ruin anyone else’s fun. That’s the way my parents trained me when I was a kid, and that’s the way it should be now. This whole attitude of “it’s just a child” is total BS.

    8) I don’t imagine you smiling, crying, having an epileptic seizure or dying of cancer. What you feel is totally irrelevant to me. How you act, and especially how you act when your children are with you is the only thing I care about. You are the one who thinks about the motivations, happiness and/or misery of people you don’t know. It’s weird, but it’s you.

  • Danielle Smith

    *sigh* I’m anything but emotional when it comes to you. I’m entertained…as there is so much you don’t know.

    Also, the first rule of debate is sticking to one topic (would you like the link? Because I actually studied debate here in the States and overseas)…consider maybe sticking to your original complaint (kids on planes) and not deviating to everything else that seems to make you crazy – kids in restaurants, parents who can’t seem to control their children, back-in-the-day teachings of how parents USED to teach their kids perfectly, how ALL kids are bratty…I’m not sure, I’ve lost track.

    Honestly, I see that you hit ‘point 8′ above, but I stopped reading after you accused me of name calling because that means you’ve lost the ability to a) read or b) process as I haven’t called you names. Rather, I DID interpret your writings (earlier) as bitter and unhappy based on blatant negativity and your incessant need to return to my site to defend your opinion that…I’m not even sure anymore…. what? That parents shouldn’t be allowed to take children anywhere there isn’t a playground? That ‘back in your day’ parents raised children better? That bratty-bratty-bratty–pollute the world-brat-Johnny….who knows?

    So…. I’m not debating you.

    Here’s the thing… you are defending YOU. I’m defending OTHERS….my community. A collective ‘everyone’ you keep slamming. A community of parents I care about and will continue to defend from people like you…especially on my site. You can continue to return and mock me, wish me ill or the like and I will thank you for the page views. (oh right…you think I’m ‘just a mommy blog’) It benefits my bottom line. Also, my children thank you too.

  • amaryllis

    We did stick to one topic, bratty kids. Honestly, it doesn’t matter if they’re on planes, trains, restaurants or the supermarket. There needs to be much more control and no one controls their kids anymore. Looked at an interview of these two doctors on the Today Show after they were kicked off a Jet Blue flight from the Caribbean to their home town. They couldn’t even control the kids then. They were crawling all over both parents and wouldn’t shut up. I couldn’t hear the interview. That’s the way parents raise their kids today, even supposedly smart people — or at least I hope doctors are smart.

    Interpreting the emotions behind my writings is hopeless. You don’t know me, and I don’t put emotions into writing. That’s your bailiwick.

    Parents should be able to take their children places if they BEHAVE. That doesn’t happen very often anymore. But if you are one of the 10 percent of parents whose children don’t have melt downs then feel free. If they start to misbehave, take them home.

    What makes you think that I’m not defending others? There are many more people who are annoyed by other people’s children than there are people who have them. Only takes one kid to make the dining, flying, shopping experience of 100 other people pure hell. Half the people who responded to this blog didn’t agree with you. I don’t wish you ill, I don’t even wish your children ill. I just want you to keep them the hell away from me if they’re going to act up. Oh, and also keep them out of first class, because you can’t get them the hell away from me at 35,000 feet.

    I have no idea if you are just a mommy blog. The name of this blog appears to be “Extraordinarymommy” — a name that doesn’t apply to you. Nonetheless, what do you write about here? Medieval history? Technology? Renaissance music? Probably not. Makes sense to me that this is a mommy blog. After all, you’ve already told me what a great debater you are and that you always stick to your topic. :P